hey everybody welcome back this week I brought a guest to come and talk to us. dasia has been on the podcast before but I asked her if she'd be willing to come back and talk to us because I want to invite her to share with us how she sent her herself and what suggestions she has for us as birth professionals how to center yourself in your joy as a black woman as a black mother and as a black birth professional. Before we dive in, fair warning, my four year old is here today. So if she comes storming in demanding that I do something for her you might hear that, if so I'll do a quick pause, but just a heads up this is life and this is what we're doing in 2021 still. So a little bit about data, data and I have been working together for. It's been probably eight ish months now, it's quite some time so earlier 2020, we started working together, and dasia is the founder of seasons of becoming birth services. She's a birth and postpartum doula, and she supports women who, in giving birth and doing motherhood on their own terms. And it was through her own personal journey of experiencing the gaps in care for expecting families that led her into the journey of becoming a doula, and I'm going to ask her in a minute to share a little more about that too if she wants. She's also the founder of black birth pro which is a community for black birth professionals to connect and learn the tools that they need to grow their business. And before she chose the path of supporting families and other birth workers. She served in active duty in the Air Force George's home, but she currently lives in North Dakota where it's like, freezing frigid looks terrible to a Floridian with her husband and her absolutely incredibly gorgeous sweet kind of slover I've ever seen two year old daughter. So yeah so dasia if you want to share a little bit more with us kind of behind the scenes like, what was the thing that really spurred you into this industry.

Yeah, so I was just touching on this the other day that I always knew I wanted to work with kids in some way growing up I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do but I was always obsessed with babies obsessed with pregnancy. So I thought maybe I want to be a pediatrician maybe I want to be an obstetrician by sat in my college microbiology one on one class. And as I was sitting there trying to think years down the road of, is this the path that I want to take to supporting families bringing life into the world and it just. At that time I didn't have the words I didn't know what a midwife or a doula was at that time but it just wasn't adding up to me it seemed like, I don't know if birth. Is this the way that we're approaching normal healthy pregnancies as a whole is going through this whole medical surgical approach for everybody. And so, I left college and join the military, so I'm a military child I grew up on military my whole life, and still found my way back to baby's birth and pregnancy even being stationed in North Dakota. So when I got pregnant with my daughter. You know I jumped headfirst into everything with preparing and planning and I found a doula and I had a home birth that I was gonna do and I had the words like the twinkle lights and I had all the pictures and everything and things didn't go as planned, where I needed a hospital transfer, and there's so much I can dig into into so much of the story and the details where I was just completely unaware of some things even with a doula. I don't think at that time I knew the statistics for black people giving birth I don't think I knew that at that time. Even though I knew like best fetal positioning and whatever a bozo was I don't think I knew the statistics for black mothers and so coming on the other side of things. I learned so much. And that's kind of yeah my jumping off point into birth work where I was like this is where I'm supposed to be okay, this is I'm on the other side of things, not, not on the medical side which has its place but this is the side that I'm supposed to be on. So that's kind of how I got into birth work was my own birth which I feel like a lot of birth workers that's kind of what brings us in a lot of times,

this the first time I think I have heard you talk about as a kid that you were interested in being a pediatrician and being around, I didn't I don't know if I've ever heard you say that that's really interesting

yeah i i was i will okay it was three things daycare work I thought I wanted to be like a daycare owner. And then I was like, oh, maybe a pediatrician because they make money that's what I'm thinking like but pediatricians make money so I'm gonna, I'm gonna work in the hospital, and I was like pregnancy an obstetrician that's even better. But yeah like actually like dipping my toe into the initial point of this doesn't seem. The obstetrics side of things seems a little interesting to me that it's going to take me, seven years or 10 years before I even maybe see what birth looks like and I didn't have the words for it at that time but now I do and I'm like, Okay, I see,

I see, and hundreds of 1000s of dollars of educational expenses right like not that that's a terrible thing because if you wanted to end up being obese, that's part of it right but like, that's the thing to consider. So, and if you if you are already starting to have that question like does it need to be this whole surgical thing then, it feels like you were already starting to. There was part of you, right, that was like looking for alternatives, maybe.

Right, absolutely. And like I said like it. I feel like things find their way back to us because I was in Georgia at that time. And like I said, this is my first place I got stationed in North Dakota. In this little town in North Dakota with one hospital, very limited resources and things still found their way to, it was still a meant for me to be in this space. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

So you, you got pregnant North Dakota right, you were in school in Georgia, but you got pregnant in North Dakota.

Yes. Wow, I am going to have to share a video with you and with anybody else who wants to see this. There was a video on that that vise did. And it was about the maternal system as a whole, like the the health care system. And they were doing a specific story on, Georgia, and specifically on the city that I was from in Augusta, and there was things I just learned last week about the statistics in Augusta the statistics and the county, right next to Augusta which is Burke County. I learned that Burke County doesn't have any OBS, they don't have any OBS and they're about 30 to 40 minutes away from care. And so, they were in this video talking about all these things, and a few other birth workers and I we were discussing how no and the video had they discussed anything to do with midwifery and you know it was all about just different than my point is that yes I'm in North Dakota now but there's things I just learned about Georgia specifically that are blowing my mind that I'm still learning now and I'm like, wow, what if I had gotten pregnant. What if I had gotten pregnant in Georgia. I'm not saying, North Dakota is super way ahead of the curve. But, Georgia like the South. Yeah, that's not that's bad, really bad at us, it's really bad. Yeah,

I agree, and the Midwest, even though, like you said, it may not be great, yet it seems like it is better, more open than the South because you know i mean i live in Florida, which some people are like Florida's not the south, but there are birth statistics, or the South. You know, like they are pretty bad here too. And then we lived in Chicago as well and it was different there and that was, it's interesting right like we went to the Midwest and opened up a little bit. I'd love to see that video to the vice video. So, my question. My next question this is kind of a big one, so take your time and, you know, elaborate on it. What, so I don't do like a ton of q&a you guys know I don't do like a ton of interviews on here so I'm not the best interviewer but I know that I have like a couple of big questions and then the rest of it I just, it's whatever whatever flows whatever feels right. But here's one of the main ones I wanted to ask you for today is, what's your perspective cuz I know we've talked about this a little bit in the past, and you have a unique perspective but I really appreciate hearing your perspective on balancing that awareness of maternal health care statistics for black women and their root causes, that balancing that understanding and that awareness with creating your life from a place of joy, you know in motherhood and really beyond.

Yeah, so even saying that those two sound like complete polar opposites to talk about acknowledging and knowing the current statistics the history as well as the word joy, the word joy for some people is, I don't want to say triggering I feel like that where it is dystonia a lot but it can be like, triggering to hear. You know how are you how are you finding joy today How are you centering centering joy in your life. My, my perspective on the balance is that specifically for black people black women, we know already, like a lot of us know through personal lived experience. What's going on for us, and not just the healthcare system but just day to day life living. And it's constantly. It's constantly coming up it's not something that you're not aware of for the majority of us. And so, when we talk about awareness, it's like me. We are aware. And so, When do we, when do we bring in, when do we bring in joy, and I'll dive in deeper into that. So most of our stories, even when talking about Black History Month are centered around, pain, they're centered around trauma. They're centered around things that feel like they were an art, a lot of times out of our control. And so it feels dangerous to explore joy. What do you mean by joy it feels like we need to be ready at all times like I need to be on defense I need to be ready for whatever is going to happen, it's always waiting for the other shoe to drop, it's, yeah it's dangerous to think about what that might feel like to explore what I want in life like what do you mean what do I want in life you're just operating with what you feel like was handed to you and what what is predestined for you to happen. And on the, on the part of like historical context it's. We know a lot of us don't know the for historical context of things. So it's another issue that present day you may hear statistics let's talk about birth birth statistics where we're saying okay black woman are two three times more likely to die. So that if you don't have the full historical context that black woman were experimented on that, that, you know, an ARCA, Betsy. I believe her name is Lucy, that these women were experimented on to create the things that we have now, like an episiotomy and like some of these surgeries. So present day if I hear that statistic and if I don't get the full context of. Why is it that this is the case, yeah, I'm internalizing I may internalize that and feel like, excuse me. I may internalize it and feel like innately. It says something in me. And so how can I bring joy into the equation, how can I think about how wonderful this birth experience can be if innately I think it's something in me that's causing me to die. And so when I think about that when I think about the. How can we balance these things being aware it's. First we have to be fully aware of really what it is not just that we're innately something's wrong with us, fully aware of history fully aware of the systems that are still currently in place today not that, like, way, way back but they're still going on. And also saying is that innately is not true for me if that is not that's not me. How do I how do I find do I how do I find what I want because naturally when I move towards those things when I focus on those things. The other stuff has to line up. And that's kind of the. That's kind of that. That piece that mean piece that I have about that.

I found it really interesting that you said, I might get the word wrong but you were saying that it was this general feeling of like not feeling safe that you always feel like she was about to drop right like there's a, there's that feeling of like, what, where did you use, kind of like protecting yourself and you know when you're hearing statistics right and I was like, I'm a good worker. I share that right and our default

is to feel safe.

That's a big thing for good workers is to feel safe. so I was like, yep, you know, because that makes sense that you would bring that insight, you know see it through that lens as well, and help others because we all have all of these different layers of ourselves that your unique insight to this is going to bring it up for others to help them look at it like, Oh yeah, you're right, it does make me feel unsafe. That's the feeling that I didn't have the words for

you know you're giving the words to the feeling, and then not just that but helping people to shift, how they learn about it right like getting the whole picture getting the context like it's not about me, it's not something in me that's wrong. Right, like you're helping people to see the whole thing like it's not something new. That's wrong. And then, how you handle the information that you've learned the whole picture. Changes contained things.

Yeah, so I'm gonna say something specifically as it pertains to birth that a lot of people may not agree with specifically birth workers when we're talking about, you know, as a doula I support all types of birth, which is true i do i support whatever choice, that people want to make. But I will say, and I don't wanna say you can fight me about it I joke when I say fight me about it but we can have a debate about it, that all that that healthy, you know, low risk pregnancies. Should happening outside of the hospital so when we're talking about when we're talking about that that fear and knowing the statistics. It's almost like if you don't have the full context if you don't think about what you do want. It's, it's this weird thing where you, you have fear and then you're, you're running to the very place that these things are happening, which, which we're referring to is the medical industrial complex so we talked about these other systems is the policing system where we know okay. Black people are being targeted in this way, you know policing is happening more in these communities, these different things are happening for blackness specifically to be pushed into the prison system for for profit. That's not to talk about profit for profit. It's for a reason for profit. Okay then we talk about the education system different things that are happening where it set up for black children to be already tardies getting tardies or getting detention or whatever these things to create a record for them. So it can follow them, there are systems, set up in place for different things, the medical industrial complex that we refer to as healthcare and obstetric care is a system that is for money, they don't work for us. They don't they work for the insurance companies, the hospital works for the insurance companies, the doctors are lining up with the hospital so a lot of birth workers steered clear of saying that right. Hey, we should talk about home birth, we should talk about out of, out of hospital birth of birth centers. Because we say we support everybody, and I'm, I'm all for it I do, I'm not going to turn somebody links say, No, I'm not going to be there for you but what I am going to do and continue to educate and talk about is that the very things that you don't want. You're running into when you don't think of what can this birth look like for me, if I really want to find joy in it if I want this to be transformational if I want to be surrounded by everyone that I want to bring in my husband, my mom, my best friend My doula. I want, low lighting, I want the smells that I want I want to have food next to me. Okay, what is that situation look like then where can that happen at me focus more on that, when we open ourselves up more to the possibility of alternatives to some of these other things and so, can a joyful peaceful births still happen in the hospital. Yes, but when we think about how much is it taking for you to get to that point. So much of the things that we talk about his birth workers are coming from this defensive standpoint of, Hey, we can get in there, you need to know your rights. You need to, you know, say no to this you need to know that you're going into it from a defensive standpoint already when birth is supposed to be open. Surrender vulnerable. Calm your non thinking brain, but I'm arming you with. I'm arming you to go fight. So that's the conversation I want to have with when I'm talking about centering joy, and the things that you want in life is not me saying have a home birth because I'm a doula and I want you to just have this natural birth because that's just what I want you to do. I'm saying the life and death situation, the, the, the thriving not just surviving situation. Can we talk about what these things can look like. Because when when the conversation is centered around fear and some people just now shut off the ears because they're scared of the statistics and they don't have the full context of it again. It's weird you then run to the very thing in the very place in the very people that these things are are happening.

Sure, and how can you. How can you prep. You know other birth professionals and or make suggestions or offer tips to help them more thoroughly. You know, go into this type of educating but also creating this beautiful experience like putting the emphasis on creating this experience like how can birth professionals do that with our clients right like teaching them giving them the full context but then taking it a step further and not just saying here's the stats here's the scary things, but going deeper, like what what would that look like because I think a lot of birth professionals, you know, have two prenatal visits texting you know there's like the standard traditional traditional contracts, you know, so going beyond the contract and creating it your own way like what might that look like to give people. I don't want to say better experience because I don't want it to sound like one is bad but like a more thorough experience a more grounded, you know, a deeper and richer experience.

Yeah, absolutely. Personally, what I do. I have, you know, my standard similar things as well as we have this mini prenatals. These are the things we're talking about specifically pretending to birth with, you know, different comfort positions and how your partner can help and the bar statistics statistics and all of that technical stuff. But really what I first jumped into before we even jumped into those things. Our first session together that I have with people that I support. I talked to them about self identity. And that seems like a really big one and like, what do you mean by self identity and I don't present it in that way because I don't want to. I don't want people to be like, wait, that's not what I came for. But I start off talking to the people that I'm supporting around this experience so what, how are you, Mike. Before we talking about what we're planning for with this birth and the baby and stuff. How are you, how has. How have things changed for you since you've been pregnant because a lot of times you get pregnant, you have your bump. Now people are just all the questions are just about how far along you are when's the baby coming. Is it a boy or a girl, yada yada yada and you get lost in the mix, and sometimes you don't even like look to realize who am I, or where am I, until the baby's like six months or a year old and then you're kind of like what is happening,

or seven. Right.

And I start that before we talk about anything else I start there with the with the person and with what they're wanting That's a hard question for people when, when I say like, what do you want. And it can be specific, I can say what do you want in your birth. And I'm not just talking about birth, options like oh I want this and I don't like no but like what do you want to feel, what do you want to. What do you want your experience to be. I start with what do you want. Because if people don't know what they want. You are going to get what's handed to you, good or bad, right. So if you do have a good nursing staff if you do if your ob is amazing or you're midway, and you're going into hospital setting. Awesome. If they're not, or you caught the wrong person on rotation. You're going to just get the standard of care and right now the standard of care is not what it's supposed to be for birthing people. And so when I start with what do you want. What do you want in your birth experience. What do you want in your experience of motherhood. We can start the conversation from there and I can shape. What we continue to talk about from that place because while I said, I'm not going to push you to do anything so if we started what you want, there's plenty of people as someone who told me off the bat. Hey, I know you're a doula Don't talk to me though about the drugs I want all the epidural and I want them to this net. And that made me feel good that she knows what she wants. Right, because I'm not here to tell you you can't do this you can. It's what you want, but if you are telling me. What I want is to be surrounded by everyone I love and I want this and I want that and what you're describing to me is maybe an out of hospital birth. Then, let's just explore things we can talk about it from this place of what you want versus what you don't want. Right when we're talking more about the fear of the citizen, that's what we're focusing on. We don't want to talk about this in this way but sometimes we manifest, the very things that we don't want because you haven't even given any thought or put any emphasis on what to do want my own experience of my home births that went to hospital. I don't beat myself up and say if I would have done this if I wanted on that bottle I've made peace with them I have processed it, but I do sometimes ponder the thought of when it comes to visualization and anybody who does meditations or whatever it is, if you do some visual visualization work. Do you know that I visualized what transferring to the hospital might look like for just in case I visualized that many times I visualized The, the drive from because it's one road it's not even making sense, the drive from my house to the hospital, what that will look like going in, if I needed to see section but you know I did not visualize not one time, what it might look like to have my baby in my master bedroom, I did not visualize that, and so am I saying that's the one key factor that led to everything. No, you know it could have been a multitude of things. But I didn't even give that a thought of what could that really look like, even though I was planning for a home birth. I did not sit there and take time to look over at my bed and say hey I could have my baby right there, or look over on the floor and say I can have my baby right there look over to my bathroom and say hey I could labor in my tub, not once that I even visualize that but I knew what it would look like to go to the hospital. So those are the things that when I'm preparing people when I'm talking to people about centering themselves, I started the conversation that. What do you want and let's shape everything from that point on, and know the statistics and we can know these other things but let's shape your experience from what you are wanting first, so that's why I would say to other birth workers, involving more things that are personalized that are unique to this person that are not just the standard prenatal sessions that go over the various things that are important that cover measures hospital, maybe policies, but things about this person what was going on with them, not just pertaining to the pregnancy pertaining to the birth, but them as a whole person.

You know what I think is interesting about that too is nobody usually asks people a lot of people go through life never really being asked what they want. You know, I mean, think back like when maybe you may have been like there are people who like my husband. I feel like, you know, there are some people who kind of knew what they wanted and they were asked, but a lot of us aren't because we go through we're busy. There's no time for like exploration in our mind of like what do we want, what do I really want, like you said you get what's handed to you. You know you're in a hurry, Mom and Dad working and we're hustling and we're moving and going to school going to class got to go here gotta go there gotta do this got to do that get the chores done get the home, like there's no time you go to college and do what like you even mentioned you know ob or pediatrics like there's money involved right like there's this, it's attractive because you're like oh yeah you know this is a lucrative profession and something that I might enjoy because I like working with kids and families in same with me in terms of like studying finance it was like okay finance there's money right like it's there's a solid, secure, back to security for the grid workers like business career here. It's not like what do you really want. I didn't really want to learn about accounting, like, that's, it's so boring. It is so boring. I mean, no offense accountants I love my accountant, and I appreciate her, you know, but I don't that that wasn't like, What do you want, nobody asked that and I have had people that I've asked that like doulas that our clients and I've had people that get really emotional the first time they sit with that question because like nobody's ever really asked them that and so asking a pregnant person that is such a. It's such a really important thing, you know, especially like you said, nobody's especially asking them about them right now they're asking about the baby about the baby when's the baby coming when's the baby due. What gender, do we think the baby is and Dakota you know and I really like that you're leading with that and taking them on a deeper journey and establishing a deeper connection with them and and really your approach like you're very much like guiding them through manifesting, you know, that can be a little controversial when we talk in birth too and I have a little bit of a controversial perspective on that as well with like, you know, yes things happen that are beyond our control and birth right but like you said, I agree with you, like, I kind of created some of my reality with my C section and with my v back in the hospital with the epidural and with manies birth like I played an active role in that, you know, and there was some of my, there were things beyond my control but also I did play and I took what was handed to me so like exactly what you're describing. So I appreciate the, the perspective of how much real estate are we allowing certain things to take up on our mind it's a it's a balance

right you say that that was the battery thing at the end of 2020 that I said to myself, as we talk about releasing things and what are we welcoming in. How hard is it to welcome joy and peace and whatever experience that you want in your life. When things are taking up real estate in your mind that's the very exact thing I said was to myself I said, What am I allowing to take up real estate in my mind, that's stopping me from being able to get these other things that I want to.

It's like this, knowing what could happen. Being aware, you know, understanding and I think about it like this with my kids too and being a mother. You know when your kids are really little and a lot of first timers are kind of surprised by this but when you first bring that baby home like sometimes there's some really dark thoughts that go through your head like you can almost visualize like. It's really weird to say out loud right but you're like, I haven't heard of money in a couple minutes what is she doing is she in the water does

she get in the,

you know, you just panic like is she eating something did she choke and, and I have to you know you can say like, Okay, I'm aware that choking can happen. I'm aware that these like you know that the, you don't want to be oblivious and hand her a hot dog and walk into another room right like that's not a great thing but like I know this could happen. And I'm also going to adjust my behavior. And my plans and not allow it to Dino knowing it, learning it understanding it adjusting my behavior accordingly slicing the water, the watermelon the hot dog lengthwise so that it's not choke hazard style perfectly choke out anything could be a choke hazard but you know and I'm gonna stay in a nearby vicinity when she's eating it but I'm not going to let it take up that much real estate, you know, I cannot let that fight, because it will, it will kill me. I think it will cripple me if I allow that you know and so I have to think like okay this is what's happening and.

So,

oh man, I like that analogy because, you know, like I studied finance but my background was real estate too so it helps me to think about like our brains as property, you know there's property and their space, and so you know those fears are there, they're not to me they don't go away. Like I'm never fearless I never ever ever feel like that there's always fear every single thing I do there's some fear. I just don't let it take up too much space, it's going to be there and move it to the I can visualize moving into this one little corner, you know, and I'm like, Alright, you can stay right there I'm still gonna do this thing. I'm gonna adjust the behavior and maybe the way I do it but it doesn't really go away.

Yes, so

I get you on that on taking care of real estate.

So, kind of,

I guess the last thing I wanted to really dive into and ask you about is how you you know center your joy as a black mother as a black woman as a black birth professional. You know what are things that you do and some tips that people might be able to, you know, people who listen like black birth professionals and parents who could do this for themselves but also non black birth professionals that can, how can they help their community, their clients. You know how can they put into practice the things that you're doing and say like if this calls to them and speaks to them how can they do this.

Absolutely. So, some of these things intertwine overlap as far as centering, what I do personally to center myself as a woman, as a mother and as a birth professional. But as a woman, I, as a black woman, what I have been stepping into because I'm still pretty young. I'm 24, and I am still very much. Coming into adulthood and learning things, you know as I, as I've moved away from home and and been married and had my own daughter. But the first thing is, owning it is owning. What has been stereotyped what what's being a black woman has meant before, not owning the stereotype but owning what it can what it means to me, what does this mean to me Who am I, it's been. There's so many words for this like the ways in which now things that were demonized or looked at as ugly aesthetically say about us with lips or our hips and our butt or the way that we speak, or whatever are now becoming trendy internet culture where people might be saying things that they are associating again as Internet slang that are black culture. And so it's just a weird space now. I mean it's always been but particularly now for black people where it's not right for you to talk that way it's not right for you to dress that way it's not right for you to, you know, whether it's your natural hair or whatever it is and now it's becoming a thing it's a trend now. And I would say that's my, my first thing with centering my joy is owning what it means to me to be a black woman outside of these boxes and containers that everyone has tried to create for me. And that includes not shrinking not shrinking myself in spaces that I'm in not getting into a space where I feel that maybe I should act in this type of way or tone it down or not say it in that way. Don't I can't allow myself to shrink anymore. My own personal enjoys counting on other people who do that. Stuffing into myself. They're counting on my daughter. I have to show her that in North Dakota, being the whatever percentage, you know, I know it's, it's not even 10%. It's probably like 1% of black people who are here, I have to teach her that that no you don't have to shrink yourself, anywhere. You know, and so that's those are the main things owning what it means to me and not shrinking myself down. Then I go into deciding what I want in life, I send to my joy by deciding what I want and I leave that as an open ended and open ended thing for what do I want in life as a whole. Outside of starting to restrict myself based on what society has told me, is available for me, or possible for me. This is an exercise for anyone who's listening, I got this from a lady named Dr friend Tonia Collins, she's on Instagram at Dr. Antonio. And she said, to take literally two minutes set a timer and to write down what you want in life. And maybe not just material or monetary things but what do you want to feel and you use two minutes because if you get more than that. You start to censor yourself you start to write. I want to earn $5,000 this month. Oh, but I don't have this set up yet, and I don't have my website yet and okay well maybe I just want to do $1,000 this month. So right, writing for two minutes, allows you to. You have to crank it out, you don't have time to sit there and chop it down. So deciding what you want and like whatever that is. I also send to my joy by giving myself grace, as I'm learning things about myself as I continue to learn things about the systems that are already in place in. Like I said a lot of things that I learned, and I try not to tell myself like Why didn't you know that if I would have just known that maybe this wouldn't have happened but to give myself grace that I know the information I know. And I'm doing the best that I can.