Episode 140 transcript:

Hi everybody. Uh, we're back. We have a guest this week. This is Jamie. Jamie, do you use your, which name do you want me to use?

Okay. We have Jamie this week. So Jamie is here. She is a former client, a former. You were in the mastermind and the premier coaching center?

I think so. I think. And so we haven't talked like on zoom for at least a year. I feel like It's been, It's been awhile, but I watched and I stay up on everything she's doing.

And, uh, it was like a couple of weeks ago I looked at the calendar and I'm like, VBAC awareness day is coming.

And I noticed that Jamie launched this new project, I'm not going to spill the beans. And so I was like, and she did come on the podcast and update because I want to hear all the things, but also for everybody else, because I think it's super inspiring to hear other birth professionals who are doing things and taking action building businesses.

So I guess first to get started, like tell us a little bit about you, you know, where you live and what you feel comfortable sharing about kind of how you got to where you are.

Definitely. Thank you so much for having me. First of all, I'm super excited to be here. Um, so I'm Jamie.

I am a mommy to four little bears and I am a military way. I was a nurse in my former life, and then I became a mom and that whole process of birth, breastfeeding and postpartum highlighted for me that there are some massive gaps in maternity care.

Like I had always seen things from the provider perspective and getting into labor and delivery had always been my goal.

Like I was like on a track to get there and I'm like this isn't right. Like, like things happened. I had a C-section with my first, which it was a planned C-section.

He was breached. I still don't really, I was willing to do a breech vaginal, but that's neither here nor there.

Um, there were a lot of options that were taken from me and then I was brushed off. Like my, my feelings were brushed off as, oh, you're just an over-concern first-time mom.

You just don't know what you're supposed to expect. You don't know what it's supposed to be. So like, figure it out, get on with your life.

Stop being so miserable. Um, thankfully my mom is like, uh, take no s**t from anybody type of person. She's like, I'm like, my mom is like queen mama bear.

She will always go to bat for us. So she really inspired me to start standing up for what I needed.

She's like, okay, you want to breastfeed this baby? You're having problems. The doctor you saw, isn't helping you. What's going to help you.

And I'm like, well, this doctor back home, we were living in South Carolina at the time. I was like, well, this doctor back home is like, it was like eight hours away is really well known for helping with tongue ties and everything.

I'm pretty sure that's what he has, but nobody's listening to me and she's like, then let's go. Like, why would you do that for your child?

If it means, if it's important to you. And I was like, oh, like, it, it just like, it was like obvious, but I'm like, oh, and she's like pack a bag and call them.

And I'm coming up with all the things I'm like, they're not going to be able to get me in like it's so last minute, blah, blah, blah.

She's like call them, tell them you are coming. And I'm like, okay. So I called them and I'm like, hi, I'm coming from South Carolina.

My son needs a tongue tie fix this week. And they're like, all right, let's figure it out. And I was like, what?

And so that was kind of the introduction to me, realizing that moms have more power than we're told that we have.

So from then on, I just kind of started realizing my mission was to support moms. So I was an LPN licensed practical nurse.

I did. Sorry. No, I'm past is. It's cool with it's this one. I know, but he's going to just yell over me.

So I'm going to go put him out with the big kids real quick. Yes, no problem. You have opinions now, so he doesn't shut up.

But, um, so I was an LPN. I was going back for my RN. I decided I'm going to go back for my RN.

I'm going to be that nurse that I needed. And I was five months postpartum and I'm talking to the director and I'm like, okay, well, you know, I just figured out breastfeeding, like I'm not giving that up.

I need like, what are pumping accommodations for when we're at clinicals and she shrugged and goes, that's not my problem.

Maybe we can find a corner for you somewhere, but I can't help you with that. And I've walked away from the nursing program.

I'm like, if there's anywhere that needs to be supportive of this it's nursing school. And if they can't be supportive of this, but they're going to preach it, screw them.

I'm gone like done. And my husband was like, what are you doing? And I'm like finding something else to do.

So that's when I started learning more about lactation consultants and doulas and how to kind of pursue that path. And, uh, just is when everything changed.

That is what, yeah. I mean, you were doing what I see. Like I'll reflect back. What I see is you are doing what is not logical, what most people would be like, that makes no sense.

What are you doing? But sometimes I think the biggest moves we make and decisions we make for our lives and in our, our businesses and our lives, they don't make sense to other people.

Yeah. And it doesn't matter. Yeah, no. I was like, you know, like, God gave me this baby. He brought me through this challenge for a reason.

Not for me to just give up on it because like for money, honestly, like, okay. Having my RN was more secure where you want to L and D is more secure than being a private practice.

I be CLC and doula, but I wasn't security. I was her. It was, I mean, I can say that because my husband has a secure job.

So that's, maybe that's kind of narrow-minded I don't know, but it wasn't, that's not what I needed at the time.

It was, I needed to help other moms and I needed to kind of heal myself by helping other moms too.

Yeah. And what was the next, so from that point, when you were like, I'm out of here, how did it evolve?

Like I'm in the business. Okay. So I became a little, I took the leap leader in our small town, and then that process led me to getting my IB CLC.

At the same time, I started working toward becoming a doula. Um, obviously that was a lot harder to do because you know, like babies pregnant have babies pregnant, but finally in 2019, I was in a place where I was able to start taking births.

So I started working, you know, births and then, yeah, it just kind of, I mean, it's like a blur looking back now.

It felt like it was like slow, so slow to get started. And then we moved and I was like really upset that everything, you know, I was going to have to start everything over, but it was actually fine.

I made a lot of great connections when we got to New Jersey, I started attending births. I was really connected with the home birth community.

So that worked really well during COVID because nobody was doing home visits for, um, home birth moms and they didn't have a hospital lactation consultant.

So, um, a lot of the home birth midwives were calling me like, Hey, my client needs you. So I was still very able to support people during that whole thing.

So it wasn't ever like you shut down too much. And then now we're here and I have moved again and moving this time was a lot harder because we're in a very small town.

There's not a lot of doulas. So working, you know, when you work like in the hospital or at first centers or whatever, you need to have a backup doula, like you need to have a good system.

You need to have childcare. There's not a good system here. There's not a good support system. And that's, it's just a small town with a lot of people who move it to the military town.

Like there's not a lot of stability. So I have only been able to take a few in-person births, lactation visits are far and few between just because, you know, we moved here.

I had a newborn just getting established in any town takes long enough. And so I'm kind of getting to the point where I'm starting to get calls now, but I kind of decided like, I need something different.

And that's when I started the podcast that you kind of alluded to earlier, my VBAC podcasts. Um, before that, even though you birth something else.

Oh Yes, my buck. She's just so casually. Like, oh yeah, my, No, I know 20th, 22 at like, it feels like it's been three years already.

Like it I've done so much this year. So my book came out in February on daughter's birthday, which is great.

So that is, I keep forgetting the title of it when I'm on the spot. I just want to blur it altogether.

Baby's first year of baby's first year for new parents. That's what it is. Sorry. It's like a lot of words.

And then I'm just like, oh f**k, blah, blah. And that's been a really great experience too. That's been a really great experience too, because I've had people, um, like people that we know would like call me and be like, my sister is having a baby.

I need this luck. I need your book. Like I trust you. And I'm like, you don't even have kids. How do you notice?

Trust me. Like, it's just, it's really, like, it's really humbling to know that I've actually touched so many people's lives without even realizing it, just by sharing my story.

And then these people are like, um, I got a message one day and she's like, so I gave my sister your book and then we had her baby shower and somebody else gave her your book.

And I was like, wait, somebody who doesn't even know me bought my book. Like, Yeah, that was exciting. So, um, that's yeah, that's really cool.

Um, yeah, it's been a big year. That's like one of those things, um, you know, once, once you are an author, you know, your, your, did you self publish or?

I did not. So actually, um, when I was in the, um, business program with you, you taught us a lot about audience expansion, like going to Herro and putting your name out there and getting media coverage and everything.

So I had done so much that I had really built up my SEO, like my online presence and a publisher actually contacted me and was like, saw one of your blog posts.

They were like, I think you'd be great to write this book. And I'm like, okay, like, yeah, let's do it.

So it was like crazy. And I actually, they had me start writing the book while I was in the middle of a move and with a newborn they're like, can we start writing it like last summer?

So they were like, we need the first chapter by June, whatever. And I'm like, yeah, not a problem. And my husband's like, you just had a baby on may.

First, our house got packed up May 20th. And we were leaving, like we were visiting family for a month and then doing a cross country road trip at the end of June.

And I'm like, no problem. Um, so yeah, it was, it was an intense summer last year, but we did it.

We did it. That's incredible. Yeah. When something is meant for you, like I'm a firm believer, I mean, you know, because we've been together, we've worked together in more private situations.

Like, you know, more about the general public, I would say. But I do believe that when something is meant for you, like it's going to happen, it's going to come through.

You're the thing like the public. Yeah. It was, it was really awesome. And it was so funny because they'd be like, now you're the subject matter subject matter expert.

And I'm like, I'm the what? Like my husband's like, you worked for this, like just own it. Um, it's kind of funny because like, for the longest time it felt so surreal.

But by this time we got to publishing, it was just kind of like, yeah, I wrote a book and people are like, wait, what?

Because I didn't tell anybody until right before I published it. So that was, it was definitely, it was an experience.

It was a great experience. And I'm really glad to just have something out there that can support moms through that period of postpartum and kind of prepare for it to, Is there going to be, uh, an anniversary party, like an anniversary virtual, a virtual anniversary book party or something, but clubs, I've never thought of that.

That's a good Ideas. Cause I'm like, oh, this could be so fun to have, you know, some kind of bringing the energy back to the book.

And like, I know you've done a lot of audience expansion and now that you are a public author, That sounds so crazy.

And it's the truth. Like you're a published author. So like it does land differently when you are doing speaking engagements.

And you know, when you are pitching, when you're pitching to be to share information, like you're a published author, they, it lands differently.

So it's just a great way to like open up. It's such solid social proof, you know, and it's a great way to open up doors to having deeper conversations in bigger spaces.

So I'm just going to play, We need to leverage it better. You're right. I do. I get kinda like shy about it.

Like, okay, I read a book and, and then I just kind of like moved on. Oh yeah. I I'm like own it.

I'm also thinking about like the next book. That's my, like, I keep thinking about that next book that I planning and hoping to raise.

Well, like I think this is really good for a lot of people who are listening that want to write a book, myself included.

I've been sitting on my draft for six months. Um, because it's not, there's something missing, but regardless like there's a lot of people who are like, oh my gosh.

And it just seems so out of reach, but it's not, it's really not. It's not. And I think as long as you have a good outline, so my publisher is great in the sense that they had an outline for me already.

So I didn't have to come up with it. But if you have any sense of logic whatsoever, you can look at a book and come up with an outline for your book.

Like you can figure it out. Like you're smart, you can figure it out. Then once you have the outline, you just take it chunk by chunk.

It's like, you know, writing a birth plan, you take it piece by piece and it gets done in my opinion, pretty quick.

I don't know. There were nights I was up till like three o'clock in the morning, like, oh, I've got a chapter due tomorrow.

I forgot, but it's Yeah, yeah. I know it's done. And then, so when did the podcasts now I'd love to hear the pocket.

So I've, I've done so much. So I had my book published February 1st and then May 31st. I launched my podcast. And so that's kind of funny.

I have been thinking about podcasting ever since I was working with you back in 2020. I remember like I would talk about it once in a while, but not, not a lot because I wasn't sure what I was supposed to podcast about.

I had so many different ideas and for the longest time I was like, you know, I was just trying to come up with something and I just keep hearing everybody say niche down, niche, down, niche down.

And I'm like, dude, like I'm a doula and an IB CLC. I don't know how to niche down. Like I have to take one path.

It's hard to do both, but I want to do both. And I realized working with moms prenatally and during birth is going to just naturally lead into helping them breastfeed.

So I kinda decided to focus more on that. But, um, yeah, it was a long time. And then I did a couple of guest speaking, like podcasts, guest appearances.

And you know, I talked so much about my VBAC and I'd have so many people like text me and they're like, whenever I think of feedback, I think of you like, and they'd like, ask me a question and I'm like, maybe I need to start talking about feedbacks more like, just really focus on that because you know, you talk about that healing birth, but it's as niche down as VBAC is, it's really not that unique compared to any other birth.

So it's very easy to flex and help anybody who needs it. Um, but so I did this podcast, um, guest appearance, and it just really, really was on my mind from there on, and I was getting frustrated because my business, like I said, it's so slow here.

I'm like, I've been trying to sell this online class, but it's really like, you can't focus on selling your online classes and networking locally.

Like I just, I don't have the bandwidth to focus on both as much as I need to for either to be successful.

I'm splitting myself up. Neither is working. Um, I have gone through like sitters and Manny's like, it's so impossible to get anybody here.

So I am like not able to have help with the kids to get all this work done. It's be going out in the town and going to visits and appointments and stuff.

So I'm like, even if that did pick up, how am I going to manage it? I can't. So I was ready to give up.

I was really like a couple months ago I was ready to throw the towel in and I ended up signing up for this coaching program spending way too much money for absolutely nothing.

And I was like, it was, it was like one of those panic purchases. Like somebody messaged me at the right time and like just pulled on emotions.

And I just like, like, yep. Yes. And then I was like, Ooh, that was probably a mistake. But I'm like, I'll give it.

It's like, I'll give it a chance. And I went through this whole experience of that program was completely wrong for me, but it was so right for me because it taught me everything.

I didn't want to be everything I didn't want to do, which kind of helped me realize what I really need to do.

So I spent a week journaling and like every morning I do my prayer time. I'm like reading my Bible and like reading stuff.

And I'm just like literally sitting on my porch. Neighbors probably think I'm crazy. I'm like screaming at God. I'm like, tell me what I'm supposed to be doing here.

Tell me what I'm supposed to be doing because you brought me through this. You brought me to this for what it's going nowhere.

Like, what am I supposed to be doing? Do I need to give up now? Because that doesn't feel right. That's not sitting right.

Like, is that like, you know, there's so many forces around us, right? And it's like, there's forces driving you to go.

There's forces, driving you to evil. And I'm like, quitting could be what I'm supposed to do. Or it could just be trying to undermine me and stop me from helping these moms who need it, stop me from serving my purpose.

So I like really sat there for a while. And all of a sudden it just hit me the feedback podcast and I'm like, okay, I can do that.

Like, I can do that. And I started like, just listening to all these different podcasts, I'm starting a podcast. And I'm like, that sounds really easy.

That sounds too good to be true. And I'm like, wait, let me just try it. Like stop, stop thinking about it and just do it.

And so I just randomly recorded episodes and was like, oh, that's actually really easy, really easy. And so I did this, I didn't even tell my husband, I was doing it.

I'm like, so I'm doing this thing. And he's like, what? I'm like launching a podcast. And he's like, that's going to take too much time.

And I'm like, I already did it. And he's like, what? And I'm like, it's already been launched. And he's like, why?

And I was like this week and he's like, I thought you just like gave up on everything this week. I'm like, why?

He's like, you've been cleaning the house and like actually making meals, like things are getting done. And I'm like, yeah.

And then also podcasts. Like it's a lot easier balance. And he's like, what? And the most amazing part is I've only been doing this for barely a month now.

Right? Like a month and a half ish. I have made so much more impact in the last month than I have made in three years of trying to figure out who I'm supposed to be helping.

I okay. Like the income event coming yet. I'm waiting for that. Like, that'll take its time, but the impact, I get emails at least once a week where Facebook messages or whatever, like, thank you so much for doing this.

Like I have women messaging me. Like I just got my VBAC, thanks to you. And I'm like, I'm going to cry.

Like you can make so much more impact without the effort. Sometimes. Like when you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, it's not going to be as exhausting and hard.

And she's like, suck the life out of you. Like I can be a mom and I can help moms and not feel like I'm drowning.

So sorry. I, that was like super long winded. I hope I answered the question that you asked it to me.

You touched on so many good things that was quite incredible. And I'm sitting here, like I'm dying to know what your human design is because we didn't use to talk about that.

Like I didn't, wasn't really talking about human design when we were working in 2020. I have only recently got an and I'm like, come on here.

But I'm human design is just curiosity. I Have no idea what that even is. Oh. So that's the other cool thing too.

Cause like you touched on so many important things, but, and I couldn't agree more like you don't when you're in alignment and when you're like doing things in a way that it's easy ish for, it gets to be more easeful.

It doesn't have, you're not supposed to feel like you're struggling and this is so hard. It's not supposed to feel like that when you're in your alignment, it feels more easeful and yeah.

The impact and the messages. Like I get it. Cause yeah, VBAC, it is like preparing for any other vaginal birth.

It's just, there's a little bit more of the deprogramming of the BS that comes, but like physically it's, it's preparing for vaginal birth.

Yes. Um, You just have so many extra trauma layers that goes through and hierarchy and oh Yeah. And it's like, it has a really special place in my heart because obviously like, um, you know, fellow VBAC, parent and like the backing was, it's just, um, I don't know.

It's, it's just another, it's a next level thing to experience for me. And like home birthing, like as a home birth mom, after a C-section I was just on a zoom call this past weekend with my cousins in Israel.

They're all women who are like a little bit older than me, but we're within seven to 10 years of each other.

And my one co we haven't been on the phone together, like ever. And we haven't like, I haven't seen their faces outside of like a Facebook post in 15 years.

I know. And so we're talking in my one cousin and she's like, everybody I meet, I tell them about your homebirth and how interesting it was that it came after you had a surgical birth.

And I'm like, like it's I get high? It's like, you feel it all over again. Right. Every time we talk about it, I Always wonder like, so I talk to women and I'll, um, I'm doing this outreach program at church for like pregnancy support and stuff.

And I'm talking to these other volunteers and they're like, oh, you're an IB CLC in doula. Oh my gosh. I wish I would have had that back when I had my babies and their kids are like 35.

And I'm like, and they just like, don't want about their birth story and everything. And I'm like, like, people really don't realize how much birth and breastfeeding experience sticks with you.

The rest of your life as a mom, like yeah, you move on from it, but you never really moved on from it.

Like, it really does impact you forever. And sometimes I'm like, wonder, I'm like, after I'm out of this stage, am I going to keep wanting to do this?

But every time I start talking about it with somebody I get so high, I'm like, no, that's going to live forever.

Like, yeah. Even if any shift in your business, right. Like I've shifted my business and I still get high talking about birth.

That's why even renaming the podcast. I still paid homage to my birth passion. It's their online business. Like there's still, like, we tell business birth stories because it's, there's so many parallels to so many parts of your life.

Like stepping into motherhood is such a powerful transformation. I feel it's entrepreneurship, like being a business owner is some intense transformational stuff.

Um, it's it's like, yeah. Um, and then what was it? You said, oh my gosh, she touched on something else too.

That it's, I'm blanking on it right now. But you touched on so many. Oh. Um, like talking to God and your church and everything.

And so this was always something that I found really cool. Like not just you, but um, you know, I'm not like super religious or anything.

And I always loved that. Um, even though I'm not religious, that I was able to work with people and help people and like have a business relationship with people who are like, What do you think you see that?

Cause when I was thinking about this episode, I was going to say like, one of the things I love about you is like, I feel like we can kind of feed off each other's energy a little bit.

Like you just like, but like, I don't, I'm sorry. I'm like stuttering. I was going to say the same thing.

Like we do not see eye to eye on everything. Like we're not like the same belief system, but we're on the same page.

It doesn't matter because it's like, you know, I'm not going to tell you, oh, you should only wear purple shirts.

You know? Like, so why would I tell you? You can only believe dah, dah, dah. And so like you and a couple other of my Catholic and other Christian clients, I love it because I'm like so cool to me that like, you don't mind that I'm not, you know, you can see me for me and take what you like, leave the rest.

And like, that was a big thing for me because I wasn't religious growing up and I know this isn't about VBAC, but just like side note, like I didn't grow up in a religious setting.

And so it's just not something that, you know, I've been learning, discovering my own belief system as an adult. And it wasn't one of the things that was really important to me.

Even as I raised the kids, it's like presenting options. Like, look, you can believe what you want and that's okay.

Like I'm not forcing anything, but like just your guide. I like feeling like I'm guiding whether it's kids or clients or whatever, and like take what you want and leave the rest.

Like the kids ask me about, um, holidays from other religions and I'm like, totally, let's look into it. Like we can, as an adult, you get to pick whatever you want to celebrate.

Like it's totally up to you. Um, and I, so I always, I always thought that was really cool. Oh, and you brought this other thing up too, about your experience in that more expensive coaching container that you're like, it wasn't for me at all, but it was because it taught me exactly what I didn't need.

And that you made an impulse decision that you like kind of instantly had feelings of like, oh, should I have done that kind of thing?

And I can't tell you how timely it is that you're talking about that because I'm teaching some stuff this fall about, um, a new paradigm of business.

So I just like, thank you for bringing that up because I'm a projector in human design. So human design is like, I'm not, I'm not an expert at it, but I've been exploring it for myself.

And it's basically a snapshot, like a graph, a chart of exactly where all the plant and I at any human design experts who are listening, please don't come after me.

If I do this wrong. It's like a snapshot, a snapshot, a chart of where all the planets and the sun and the moon and everything were situated, right.

When you were born and you came into the earth, right? So your exact time of birth location, where everything was.

And so there's different categories and it's not like a be all end all. But I learned my wine and my kids, human design and understanding more of the nuances has been such a cool thing for me to learn how I get into my best alignment for ease and flow.

And then just really leveraging that to my, to help me evolve in different ways and parent, because all my kids are different.

Like all we know that we know all of our kids are different people, but like me learning their human designs, I'm like, oh, no wonder, like, it just helps me learn how to navigate each one of their little experiences.

Um, and I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, which I said I would, and I didn't need to do it.

Um, but all of that to say, like, I've been leaning into my own human design and deprogramming, some of the business stuff I've picked up along the way too.

That's like Ashley, I learned what I'm not. And I learned what doesn't work for me too. So as I have a lot of new stuff coming through, more sharing of that, I'm a projector.

And that was like an invitation for me to say like, yeah, keep going. This is the correct direction It is.

And I think it's so good when we have those experiences too, because like, sometimes you just have to learn, you know what, you're not, but it kinda like, it threw me into a secondary panic, like after I was done with the program and I was like, this wasn't what I wanted it to be.

It's not what I expected it to be. I was angry. And I had, um, been following this other coach and like, we were like Facebook friends, but we never really talked.

And I just like commented on something one time. It was just like, I'm just like, so like angry about this little blah.

And she's just like sent me a message. And she's like, I was just looking at your stuff. And she's like, she's like, I really just think it's like these tiny little tweaks that you need to make.

You don't need to be investing thousands of dollars in people to tell you what you already know. Like, I feel so many of these programs, not yours, but like a lot of the programs out there really prey upon certain, I don't know.

They just like pray upon little things and they sell this big solution, but then they just teach you the basics.

They don't go any deeper. And it's like, no, I'm beyond that. Like, I'm sorry, I don't need to sit here and go over my ideal client avatar every five frickin minutes.

Like I just don't and like, yes, messaging can always use tweaking, but I want more like direct support with that.

And not just like this broad, like whatever. So it's always kind of like, oh, like she was so amazing because it was just like a Facebook message.

Like not even a coaching session or anything. And she's just like, you're branding. You just need to tweak your branding a little.

So like, as I was coming up with this VBAC podcast, I was like, I think this is the time to really start doing that.

And so I like got some new colors and she, she was like, even reaching out, she's like, look at your pictures.

Like, what do you typically wear? Like, she's like, just scroll through your Instagram. People see this like edgy girl and then click the link and see this like bubblegum pink website.

Like, this is not the same. And I'm like, oh, I'm sending two totally different messages. And like fives and people probably are confused by that.

So I'm just embracing who I am more now. I think like, it's embracing me embracing what I want to say, not even what I want to say, but like what I'm being guided to say what I'm supposed to say, like, And then you're letting it out.

You are because like your, your like reels, one of the reels Queens, we have a couple of rules Queens in the membership.

Now that they'd be like best reels. And I always I'm like, Ooh, I think that's how I saw the VBAC podcast.

Cause I was following you in, came up in reels and I was like, she's making some killer reels, like just being yourself and expressing your true self and letting more Oh, sassy on like on the podcast too.

Like I kinda just like stopped giving a crap. I was just like, I'm going to be really polite and professional.

And I'm like, Nope, I'm not. I'm just going to say, say what I need to say. Like, it's, it's going to upset people.

And I don't like treading lightly, not getting to whatever. Like I think the birth community is amazing, but it can also be really toxic.

And so like so many in the birth community just like pull each other down for different beliefs and it's, it doesn't help anything.

It just makes the problem worse. And so that was really one of my hesitations is like, am I going to end up the target of some toxic person that doesn't like, what I have to say?

And then I was like, oh, well, if I say they can say what they want. More people look at my stuff and it's going to help who it needs to help.

Like You might, if it's the thing is you can never make everybody happy. It's impossible. And I, like, I just had to come to that.

There's always layers of it. Like, no matter what there's always layers of. Like, do I talk about this? Do I say that I taught on something this morning and like my private community, um, as like a beta.

And I was like, I'm going to be honest with you guys. Like, I was a little bit nervous to teach this because you know, whatever.

And then I'm like, and then I, you know, you're exactly right. Like you cannot please, everybody. You're not forcing anybody to come listen to your podcast.

You're not forcing anybody to come listen to your training. Um, you are not an RN right now that you're in the hospital.

And like you're putting your beliefs on people and forcing them to like, it's, it's a different city. It's a different context, right?

Like what we're doing has different context and people have choices when they want to listen to a podcast, they can pick which podcast feels correct for them.

And even if like, even if I say things that, um, or my belief system doesn't align with a lot of the birth workers that have different belief systems for different things, I would hope that like the way that I'm sharing it, if they are here to get a message that they can get the message, even like you and me, like, we have different beliefs in a lot of categories, but we're like, it doesn't matter.

You know, you come for what you need and you can still have a neighbor that believes differently than you. And you can see them and be like, nice purple shirt I chose for you today.

Have a good day. See ya. Alrighty. It's funny. Cause like, just that aside in general, I was telling my husband the other day I was like, everybody right now in the world is fighting about everything.

But the truth is we all really want the same thing. Like we all really have the same goal at the end of the day.

Everybody just has a different idea of how to get there. And if everybody would stop being nasty, we could actually listen to each other and maybe compromise and get there.

But you can't do that. But in a space like yours, it happens. I like that. And not for nothing, but like politics are very polarizing because it works.

Yeah. And so I ever since, okay, so this is kind of funny not to get into politics or off beat or anything, but like ever since I started running a business and learning about marketing and I like listened to the media, I'm like, does anybody realize they're just marketing?

This is just a big marketing theme. That's all it is. All of it. It's marketing, they're just marketing. And I don't understand why other people who've been marketing for years.

Aren't seeing that and understanding that, but that's all it is like take it with a grain of salt, move on, like, Yeah.

And you know, a lot of the birth workers are teaching we're teaching families, like how to advocate for themselves, how to think for themselves where we're giving them permission to like think outside the box.

But then I'm like, just try that on, in a different context, like try on those skills that you know how to do in the birth room.

Try it on in real life. Like what if I thought for myself, what if I wasn't Like what I teach my clients is the three pillars of confidence for childbirth.

But really I call it the three pillars of competence for motherhood. Because you take those with you there all of your life.

Like whether it's your own life, whether it's advocating for your children, like you take that once you learn it in birth, you, it like, it transforms you for the rest of your future.

And so it is like, we teach you these skills for birth. Like use it for the rest of your life.

Like, And in all these contexts, cause even in business, you know, and yeah, you're right. The news is a big marketing.

It's a joke. We don't, I don't, I just don't watch the news. I don't, I don't, I haven't in a very long time.

I did at the beginning of like in mid March 20, 20, I'll say it this way. I watched it at first.

Cause I was like, what's going on? And we watched it for a little while and I'm like, this is actually not helpful.

And so that was the end of that. And so, okay. You have to be really a strong believer that like, if you don't watch the news, you're like not getting informed and not even from a sense of like watch one source, like watch every source, take your own opinion.

But it got to the point where it's like, that's just too toxic too, because you get 97 different voices in your head and then you go down these rabbit holes and I'm like, it's just like, it's just like burst again.

Like you start getting all these toxic first stories in your head and then you can't actually just think about your own experience.

You just start believing what everybody's telling you instead of experiencing and doing what you are supposed to experience and do.

Totally. Um, yeah. I'm like, so what's next? What are you doing next? Now? You've got your podcasts. It's it's brand new.

The baby is brand new at five KRAS and VBAC we're going to stay is coming as, at the time that this airs it'll be coming like on July 30th, second annual VBAC awareness day.

Yeah. Um, so what is new? I, I'm not really sure what the next step is right now. I am just trying to grow my be back with confidence program.

I told you, I was thinking about another book of feedback has confidence book that will kind of go along with that, but it'll probably be a minute before that's no coming out who knows I might get, I might get excited and just do it one week.

No, I'm kidding. But um, I mean VBAC awareness day, I am planning on having some mamas come tell their birth stories and really just share more resources for VBACs really make a, make a big deal about it.

And there's going to be some special discounts to get into the, be back with competence program so that everybody, and, you know, as business, it's always so hard to praise yourself, right?

Like I just want everybody to have access to this. So we're going to, we're going to do a special so that everybody can get in on that and start preparing for their VBAC because it really does just take some reminders of like some very basic reminders that are jam packed in here.

It's a great program. So One idea that I, oh, you know what, somebody presented me with this idea several years ago at this point it was like maybe four years ago.

And at the time I thought that I was going to do it my past on it. And so I'm going to share it with you just in case you want to do, um, a book that's effectively a collection of the VBAC stories that are shared on your podcasts that are transcribed and turned into a chapter.

And each chapter is a story. That's an amazing idea. And the book could be a whole collection of VBAC girth stories.

Cause like, I mean, I, to back just as zoom out a little bit about the podcast conversation, one of the reasons I love podcasting is like now you know how easy it is, but also when people find you and they learn about you, it's so much easier for them to like really consume your heart centered content in a digestible way because you just play episodes.

And when you have like only Instagram, you have to go through and read each caption and like go back and go, okay, Instagram so much as a joke, like I'm so close to just deleting it.

I'm just trying to make sure, like I grow the podcast before I do that. And it's the way you're approaching Instagram.

I feel like you're having, it looks like you're having fun. You know, just being able to be like, You're doing a good job.

It's really, I like it. I do. And it, yeah, I do. And so, um, I love the podcast because I love that people have an opportunity to connect with you outside of social media and then the way that we digest and consume the content is manageable.

Um, so, okay. Yay. So I'm excited for VBAC day, whatever you're gonna do. Um, and I'm glad that you came so people to connect with you.

So your Instagram I'll share on the links, but it's the Instagram is at VBAC podcast. Is that where you want The feedback podcast?

Yes. The VBAC podcast and um, yeah, there, um, really just the podcast. I'm not doing too much else right now.

I share something from the podcast with my other Instagram, just cause I've got more people there, but I'm not very often.

Awesome. Well thank you. I appreciate it. It was awesome to catch up. I always had a good time. I enjoyed it so much.

I did for you too. And this friend to chat. I hope whoever out there really is like, just nervous about starting.

Like don't, don't be nervous. Don't be nervous. There's nothing to be nervous about. Okay. If you screw up, you sound awkward, like whatever, who cares, move on.

It happened. Yeah. It's true. It's true. I agree. Thank you for sharing that too. All right. I'll see you later.