Episode 124 transcript:

Hey everybody. And welcome back. We have a special guest this week. Uh, one of my favorite people, her name is Anna Chi job, and I invited her to come and speak with us. I have, this is one of the series of the business birth stories, and Anna has a really cool birth, a story about her doula business, and I'm excited for her to share. Um, she is the owner, the founder of the living womb. She's based in New York city. Um, doulaing for eight plus years, I'm gonna let you tell more about yourself and, and your business birth story. So go ahead and take the floor.

Speaker 2: (00:43)

Yeah, thanks. So cool. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Um, yeah, so my business was birthed because of my daughter when she was birthed. Um, I had a really, really cool birth experience with her. And when I got pregnant with her, I was actually deathly afraid of hospital. My association to them was blood and guts and death. And I, I, one time I had to visit my cousin who got in a car accident and it was just like so traumatic for me to even just walk into a hospital. So ever since then, I even declined a surgery when I was like 18, because I just didn't wanna go to a hospital. Um, yeah, so I got pregnant with her in New York. I was 26 years old at the time I had just moved to New York city. It's kind of a weird story.

Speaker 2: (01:37)

Uh, I don't know. It's kind of a cool story. I think, uh, moved here. It's 26. I had $1,500 to my name and a suit came and I was just on an adventure as a young woman. And I met her dad about six months after coming here and we became friends and I just felt this serious call to have child. And everyone thought I was nuts. Uh, but um, her dad was like, I'll have a baby with you. And I was like, okay, let's do it. So we literally had sex for two months and then I was pregnant. So less than a year after coming to New York, I was pregnant with my child and so excited and again, had to face this issue of the hospitals, right. So I did some research and found this place called Brooklyn birthing center, which is the only freestanding birth center in all of New York state.

Speaker 2: (02:38)

So luckily it was down street from my house, not too far. And I called them and they said, come in. And they took Medicaid, which meant I paid $0 for my entire birth experience. $0. Yeah. So, um, and actually just to like throw a little something in here, New York city, our new mayor, we just got a new mayor, Eric Adams, and he just passed this initiative to, uh, provide doula services free of cost to Medicaid recipients in certain area codes in our, um, or zip in our city. And so this is happening right now, which is incredible, um, as well as like an initiative to get more midwives in all the hospitals and actually also to create more birthing centers cuz it's necessary. Right. So this just happened like this week, which is cool. Cuz it's matching up with world doula week, right? Um, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: (03:41)

Yeah. So a lot of community, uh, based, uh, organizations are really diving into, to beef up their, their doulas, um, so that we can get more boots on the ground and get more family supported. But anyways, I went down to rabbit hole there. I um, back to my mite story, uh, yeah, so I found Brooklyn birthing center. I started going there. It was incredible. All midwives it's looks like a house and they have two birthing rooms with big bathtubs and queen size beds. And I just had it in my mind that I wasn't gonna do anything else. Like that was that. And I also had it in my mind that she was gonna be born in the water. I just had this vision. And again, I, I couldn't see anything else than that, which is a little bit like eight years later now I'm like, wow.

Speaker 2: (04:35)

I was like, so ignorantly blisful in my pregnancy. Like I really didn't know much. Um, I didn't even know what a doula was and the midwives about halfway through my pregnancy were like, you need a doula if you're birthing here. And I was like, what's a doula. And they were like, just get one. So there's an organization in New York called the NYC doula collective. So a quick Google search brought me to them. I found my doula. I paid $350 for her. Um, which this again is my daughter's eight. So a little over eight years ago and the market has changed, but um, yeah, steal of a deal and Madeline was amazing and she, um, she was a new doula herself. I think that's why with so in expensive, um, relatively, but I mean, it was incredible. Her support was like nothing I had ever experienced before.

Speaker 2: (05:33)

I mean birth was nothing I had ever experienced before, but having that third piece of the puzzle, you know, she came to our house at one 30 in the morning when I don't even remember what was happening. I just know I was going from the toilet to the shower, to the toilet, to the shower. Um, I had drank in caster oil cuz my water had broke first and I drank a lot. I drank four ounces as per the midwives and it put me into labor 30 minutes later though with three minute apart contractions and she came over and we got to the ho uh, birthing center, not hospital. Um, I was like six centimeters and I was fully like three hours later and I pushed for about three hours, but she came out and it was incredible and you know, blew my mind. Wow. What an experience to have a human grow side of you and then it come out of your body and then, you know, wanna latch onto your nipple, like right away.

Speaker 2: (06:32)

And you know, our first breastfeeding position, we were sideline and thank God, you know, and I think that that moment really did shape. Even today. She sleeps in my bed and we're side by side. She doesn't breastfeed anymore obviously, but you know, like it, it really, that whole experience really did shape my parenting and her, her attachment style to us, you know, an artist to her. So I had just a, a really super cool experience and I was blown away by her and the fact that my breasts were, you know, leaking with milk and it was feeding her and it was just a beautiful thing. So her dad was at actually the one that was like, why don't you just go do the doula training, just go see what it's about. So 400 bucks spent, it took her at two months old with me to the doula training.

Speaker 2: (07:33)

It was two days with, um, a good friend of mine. She's still a friend of mine today. Her name's Rena, um, Rena, crane she's she was a up in the donor world for a really long time. I don't think she is anymore, but now she's just a doula trainer. Um, so yeah, I did, I did that with Rena. She was at the time, the director of the doula collective and then my doula was a part of it as well. And so they both were like join the collective. And I was like, okay, you know, by this time NOLA was four months and they were looking for new doulas and I got in, I wasn't expecting to work. I actually told Johnny Nola's dad, like I don't wanna work for the first year of her life. Like I just wanna be with her. And then this thing just kind of, the ball kept rolling and all the opportunities just kept presenting themselves.

Speaker 2: (08:30)

And you know, I was just trying to listen to the right thing. And so I, I joined the collective and then literally the day after I finished my checklist, it's like referrals in my inbox, you know? And, and again, I paid three 50 for my doula, right. So Madeline was a new doula at the time we had this tier structure in the collective, which now we don't have that anymore, but I started off getting paid $250 per birth, right. Because the collective takes chunk and I did 20 births at this level. I, I didn't even care about the money. I was like, I just wanna go to birth. Like, I don't care where you live. I don't care anything. Just get me there. Right. So I think I even did a few births for free. Um, and every time I went to a birth, my mind was blown, just blown, you know, um, the fact that people go do go do this thing all the time, every day babies are born.

Right. But like, how are they born and how does the mom feel and how are the family is born? Right. It's not just the baby. It's the mom, it's everybody involved. So, um, yeah, my first birth was in a hospital, so I actually had to go into a hospital. I was so scared. I almost passed out. I almost threw up to the point where the doctor was like, are you okay? Do you need to sit down? And I was like, I'm good. Um, I just went and like smelled some peppermint in the bathroom and like pulled myself together. But you know, then, then I mean, fast forward, eight years, I've been to nearly 300 births all over New York city now. And all the hospitals still in the one lovely little birth center over there. Um, that's hanging on by a thread because you know, they, they don't get paid.

They can't charge what hospitals charge because they're not doing anything to get to charge. You know what I mean? Like when you're in the hospital, they literally give you a wristband and they have a scanner, like you're at the grocery store and they like scan, scan, scan. Yeah. You know, they'll, they'll scan you for skin to skin. They'll scan, they'll charge you for that. Yeah. You know, they'll so crazy. But the birth center, I think max, they get paid out like six, 7,000 for a birth as to where in the hospital, you know, with a C-section these people are getting paid nearly $50,000, you know? So it's just a wild system. And um, it's, you know, to me, it's not about the money. It's about how do we make people have a good experience and go, you know, to the other side, go through the portal, through the warm hole of birth, you know, which is a weird space.

It's really hazy. It's wild. It's weird. Like you have to leave your body. You ha you have to let your mind go to get your baby here. If you wanna do it. Mm. I guess naturally quote unquote. Right. But again, I don't even prescribe necessarily to that. It's great. If you can get your baby out without any assistance or drugs or ever, but like, we just gotta get the baby here and we gotta get the mom here to the other side as well, with the least amount of trauma as possible. Right. Going into parenthood. What is this word that I think you and yeah, we've talked about in our groups, like, um, sex with an malt truss,

Uh, a word. Yeah. Is it, I always say it wrong now you me stumble over it. S no, it sounds something that, but yes. Yeah.

But like, how do we mother, the mother, right? Yeah. Take care of the mother as she's going through the transition and all of yeah. All, all that she's experiencing. So, yeah. So, um, I guess just on top of that pivotal moment of birth, there's so much more, right. There's all the prenatal preparation. And like I said, in my pregnant, I felt very ignorantly blisful I felt like, well, it's only gonna go this one way. And like, I know what I need and I, I didn't need much in my mind. Right. Um, and, and on the other side of it still, I didn't need much, right. I need a carrier. I needed my boobs.

I needed a pump when I went to births, you know? Right. Um, I did breastfeed her for like three, almost a little over three years. So, um, you know, you don't, you don't need much, but you do need support and you do need a community and you do need people to talk to and people to process with. You know, I wish I actually, would've taken advantage of my doula a little bit more in that sense. I wish I would've asked her about newborn sleep. Right. I would, you know, I loved our co-sleeping journey, but like, I would also love for my eight year old to be sleeping in her own bed. Right. Rather than my

I, and, you know, I have thoughts about like, I have feedback and, and stuff that I'd like to reflect back to you about the whole ignorance of the first time. And I have thought, but I'm gonna share that with you privately in box. Cause Anna and I work together privately. So I'm gonna, I'll provide that part of the conversation outside of here. You know, what I wanted to ask you too is, um, because you were a, an established birth professional for six years, by the time March 20, 20 came around. So how has, you know, obviously at this point it's been two years, people are picking up virtual, but like, how has the land change for you and what you've seen, um, in the last couple years?

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, COVID changed everything. Uh, telehealth is this brand new magical thing that we can utilize and doula support. A lot of it is telehealth in the first place, you know, um, pre pandemic, we were doing two prenatal visits in person, and then we were doing the birth and one postpartum visit that was kind of the standard doula package, at least that we offered through the doula collective. Um, you know, obviously when you're on your own business, you can formulate whatever you wanna offer. But I think that the pandemic did that for us. It shifted that, and it opened up, you know, kind of the box of what we can do, you know, so we can do a million zooms. I don't care how many times you wanna zoom me. Zoomy, it's easy. I'm, I'm at I'm home. I don't have to go anywhere.

I don't have to find childcare to go do a prenatal visit. I can do it right here from my home office, you know, um, that aspect to, you know, people have gotten more comfortable using virtual platforms like zoom, like boxer, like just even just audio messages or text messages. You know, people understand that this way of communication is valuable. Um, so the, I think the prenatal and postpartum communications kind of beefed up because of COVID and that's cool. I think we're supporting our clients better, you know, pre pandemic. It was like, oh, we have these two prenatal visits. And I'm like, we would text maybe if they had an issue, but I feel like we're able to connect almost more deeply now, um, with this new structure than the last one. And then, you know, the birth, um, a lot of people really still want in person birth support, but during the pandemic, all of my clients in that, what was it?

March, April, may they all left New York city. They went to Michigan, they went to Cape Cod. They went to Florida, they went back home to where their families are and they gave birth there. So, you know, I had to help them mentally shift their expectations. You know, they had to find new care providers. And then during the birth, we were virtual, we did virtual support. So it's like literally on FaceTime with them, you know, helping like scanning the room what's going on. I can't be there to do every little thing. I can't be there to do counter pressure, but I can tell the partner what to do, you know, and I can empower them to support their birthing people in a ways that if I was there, they just wouldn't, they would just take that backseat kind of, and lean on me to do that work.

But in a way, I think it's more beautiful, um, for the, the family, when that partner can really be there and be hands on and be in their, in their face, in their space a little bit more than they would, if I, if I'm physically in the room, um, when I'm physically in the room, I try to encourage them to do that. Right. But they're like, no, we hired you for this. So like you do it, you know, you're a better hip squeezer than me. So, uh, yeah, I think that the pandemic has just opened up a whole new world of ways in which we can support people. And that's been a beautiful thing and, you know, eight years later doing this work, it's interesting. The amount of time I spend at births now is way less than what I used to spend. Um, when I do go in person, which most people now that the pandemic is normalized and we're all kinda out and about again, you know, they kinda want me there and it's like, okay, but don't show up until I really need to be there. And then, you know, maximum, I'm there 12, 16 hours now as to where I used to be there 24, 36, sometimes like, I'd be killing myself, you know, and spending so much money on childcare. Right. Um, everything has shifted everything. People's expectations way that we present what we can offer. Um, it's all kind of shifted. So, and I think it's, and that's

Such a gift. It's such a gift for you too, to really get more clear on your boundaries, you know, to honor your life. Your, I hate to say the word balance, but you know, your work life balance. And, um, cuz sometimes balance can be a funny word, you know? Um, but it's really reaffirming your boundaries and I like that you said empowering them because that's exactly. I was thinking, wow, what? It's so empowering for families to learn how to do things, to be more involved, to get in there. Um, and it's refreshing to see somebody who isn't brand new, you know, you are a season experienced birth professional that, um, didn't just pivot, but like embraced and grew from what, you know, the external environment of the last couple of years. And that's really, um, I think inspiring to other birth professionals or even other folks who traditionally do in-person services that have started to, you know, um, think, oh, can I do this virtually? Can I do that? It's inspiring because they're like, is it possible? Is it possible? Well now you're hearing clear as day. It's not just possible, but there's also a lot of gifts in it. Um, yeah. And so, okay, so we've, you've sorry you go ahead. You go first.

I was just gonna say, and it's like a whole nother service you can offer, you know, it's like you can offer your in person services and then for a more affordable price, you can offer virtual support and you can do it from anywhere. You know, I just went home to California. It's like I only went home because I had a chunk of time. Luckily my March clients delivered a little early and then my April clients are like, the due dates are a little later in the month. And so I had a, a smidgen of time to get away. But you know, if I'm scheduling in person birth clients, I can't travel. I can't leave New York. I can't go on vacation. You know what I mean? Unless I'm charging an arm and a leg in which most people, uh, I mean, I am in New York. So some people will pay that, but like not everybody, you know what I mean? Wow. Right. But if I can offer virtual support for half the price, yes. We all win

It. It really win. I remember, um, like to your point that you could do this from anywhere. I remember, um, Christmas time in 2019, I was at Disney with the family. And as the kids were riding rides, we were waiting in lines. We were riding the monorail. I was texting a husband who his wife was in labor and we were, there were on the other side of the country and I was sending him, you know, ideas and resources and asking him what's going on? How is this? How is that? So it was a virtual support situation. I was at Disney, you know, like I couldn't FaceTime necessarily, not comfortably. I could have left Disney if I had to FaceTime, but they were pretty early on and I just remembered thinking, why not? You know? And then a couple months later people were starting to yeah.

Do exactly what saying. Um, and then you came into my spaces at least. Then when I became aware of you, like you came into the online business school and I can't remember what month. And then we started working more closely together a couple of months ago. Um, which has been such a gift to be able to get to know you and witness you like on a, you know, on a more intimate level. I, I love that part of my job. Um, what has, what do you find has been, um, if you had to say like one of the most helpful things that you've found from our work together, um, what would you say? Like the one thing is

I love that question. I think it's being able to talk to you, somebody who gets it, you just get it, you know, and you, you speak my language and that's a beautiful thing. And I often feel in New York city, like a, a fish in a, a small fish in a big pond type of thing, you know, there's so many people here, there's millions of people and I'm also not from here. Like I'm not an east coast girl. I'm a west coast girl at heart. I'm from Cal, California, you know, and I get it all the time. People are like, you're not from here. Right. And I'm like, no, I'm not. And, and, but your vibe is very similar to mine. I don't know if it's a Florida thing, but, um, maybe that sunshine does something to us, right? Yeah,

It does.

Yeah. Yeah. It gives us a little pep in our step. But, um, you know, I think that, yeah, just the ability to talk to somebody who speaks my language has been the most helpful I have communities up here, but I think I'm weird.

Same, same, a lot of real life people. I think, think I'm a little out there when I really start to talk. Right. So thank you for saying that because it's also a good reminder for everybody. Like here's another benefit of doing virtual work in whatever arena you're in doula work, whatever it is offering some virtual space because we haven't met in person you're in New York, I'm Florida. This wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for virtual support. And that's right. The other piece of what you said was, you know, you get it right. And I get you, I get the people that I believe that I'm here to help. And I think the same is for you. And the same is for this person and this person and this person. And so anybody who is like, oh, you know, there's so much competition. And I don't know if I should do this thing and I'm not that good or I'm not this or whatever, it's not true because you are a match for certain people at certain times and you know, for different seasons and you are here specifically with a job, I believe to help somebody with one piece of their journey, um, or more or multiple, depending on the situation.

And so, um, it's just a really good reminder that we all need to do our thing because we are all gonna be the person that gets it for somebody. And someone's, you know, multiple somebody. Yeah. Not, not everybody, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, you know, one thing I've learned from you is like, if you are just your authentic self, The P people that are your people who are gonna gravitate towards you and that's all that matters. Right? All the haters, all the naysayers, all the people that wanna say X, Y, and Z about what you are doing. It's like, that does not matter what actually matters is what's progressive and what's helpful for you and for the people that are attracted to you. Right. And then like, there's enough space for all of us. There's enough space for all voices. Right. We are all allowed to be here

And it's, it's, it's like, um, you, you'll never please, everybody ever you'll, there's always gonna be people who are like, eh, you know, and maybe for no reason that they can even pinpoint or maybe because they're like, I just, just don't like you and that's okay. Um, so if you, you know, that you can never ever please everybody, cause you might as well just be yourself,

A hundred percent

People who like are gonna get you are more likely gonna find you because you're the only one talking about do da, da, da, da, or doing do the way you do it. So, you know, and I realize that one of the examples in my personal is like my niece, who I adore, she's like 20, she's gonna kill me if she hears this. Like, I wanna say 5 25, but she doesn't like chocolate. And I'm always like, I, you know, that is the only thing I do not understand how you're related to me because she can't, she just doesn't eat chocolate. I'm like it chocolate can't even, please everybody, you know? And if chocolate, please, everybody then I mean, come on. So I always think that's a really good reminder. Um, so what are you working on? Yeah. Thanks. What are you working on right now? What's new. What's what's happening in your world.

Yeah. There's a lot happening. Um, so, you know, with your kind of nudge and with, you know, being a part of the online business school and being a part of the one-on-one mentorship that you offer, it's like really encouraging me to step in more deeply into the virtual space. I'm working on doing like a video of myself, talking on some kind of social media platform. Like I need I'm, you know, this cuz we're working together, but getting over that fee of public speaking and it goes into ties into exactly what we were just talking about. Like, oh, will I not be accepted? Oh, will they not like what I say? Oh, will somebody DM me something horrible? You know, like, those are all the fears that play out in my head, but like getting over those fears, you know, getting myself, putting myself out there a little more authentically.

And then, you know, besides that, um, I, I have mentored, uh, new doulas in their businesses in the past, through the doula collective, but we've been on a hiring freeze for about three or four years as we've been completely revamping our handbook just to make it more equitable. I spoke on that tier system that we used to have when I joined and that's gone, like now doulas have more agency, you know, they come in and they can say how much they wanna charge. Um, we used to tell them what they can charge and now they're in charge of their business. Right. So, um, I've mentored people in the past and I haven't mentored since we've been on this hiring freeze, but in my own personal business, I'm like, I have so much to share. So I'm gonna start sharing, um, April 1st, starting on the new move, we're gonna be starting a birth worker, mentorship that is all virtual.

So, you know, you don't have to be a New York city doula to be mentored by me. It could be anybody from anywhere. Um, and let's get your business off the ground and let's, you know, figure out what works for you. And let's get all the little ducks in a row and make sure that, you know, when I first started doing this work, it was like Google docs and, and my personal email, you know, and it's evolved now, there's a website. Now there's a business email now there's honey book, thank God for honey book. Shout out to, for like, oh yes, honey book is a, is a CRM system, customer relation management, or I think that's what stands for. Sounds good. Yep. Something like that. But you know, it's really changed the game for me and, um, has automated a lot of the tedious tasks, you know, behind the scenes stuff so that I can really put on the things that I'm excited to teach and talk about.

Right.

Um, so teaching the, if I would've been taught that as a new doula, it, I don't know where I would be now. It'd be a totally different game, you know? But so I just wanna share what I know, what I've learned with new doulas, help them kind of fast forward their a little bit and get them to where they wanna be and like finding their authentic voice, finding their authentic selves in this work. Um, yeah, that's what I

Mention. Just a reminder too, if it's been three or four years, since you last mentored like a little reflection back to you, you are a completely different person. No doubt. Now that totally three or four years ago, the way you do business, the way you manage life, the way you, you know, dance between this and this and this, and like you're different now. So to bring a new version of you, um, I'm personal. My personal belief is that we evolve. So if we dis I think we evolve naturally, but also when we do it with intention, it occurs very rapidly and you are somebody who does it with intention. Um, so no doubt that people who work with you three, four years ago probably wouldn't even recognize your mentorship today.

Um, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think that's really, really cool. Um, last question, because I'm bringing this unschool, your business theme to the podcast now. So at the end of every episode, everybody who we brought this birth story, business, birth story series back, but I have this theme that I wanna include at the end of the episodes. And it's, um, one thought or one way you can unschool your business. And so if you are looking at your business and the things you've been deprogramming and deconditioning, what do you think is one thing that you recognize that you've been unschooling and deprogramming, how you do business?

Yeah. That, that, you know, I'm not a savior. I can't save anybody. I cannot do it for you. I cannot birth your baby for you. So my presence in that room, while at be comforting to you is not necessary. It's not, you know, I think for some people, it is for some people like black and brown people, they need a bulldog in the room. They need someone with eyes and ears, you know, but we can also do that for people virtually just turn on the video, we'll be there, call us right. When the doctor walks in the room, call us,

Call me, you know, and then, and then we can, I can be a part of the conversation, you know? Um, if you, if you're really scared, keep me on video, you know, like it works, telehealth works. That's what I know. That's what I've come to learn. And you're right. Like there's other birth professionals out there that are so afraid to make that transition, right? Like, no, like we're not gonna be able to support them in the ways that we know how we can. And it's like, your hip squeeze is not gonna change the game. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So you're really,

We can do it

Stripping away the way that we've been taught, how to do this work and yeah. Keeping what works building on it and stripping away the rest. Um, so I'm gonna share a link also in the show notes where everybody listening and where to find you on Instagram and it's at the living womb.

Yes. Okay. Living womb. Yes.

And so I'll link to your Instagram and the show notes. So you can connect with Anna and just follow along and, um, keep up with what's happening with her in NYC. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming to hang with us. Yeah. And sharing your business birth story. I greatly appreciate you.

Oh, I appreciate you too, Nicole. Thank you.